running up scores in a high school sport? classless

My son plays for the swan valley tigers and they had a game against lumsden yesterday. As most of you can probably see and for those of u who have not the score was 90-0. I 'm not sure what lumsden's coach was trying to prove but my son who is new to te program is awful upset. We are currently in a re-building year and he feels he needs to run up the score. From what i've seen in the previuos 2 games they have played lumsden is not only doing that to our team.

I have coached in other school sports before and it is classless and embarressing to run up a score like that in any sport. Kids that give up alot to go to practice volunteer coaches that could be doing something else with their time to go out and be humiliated. My son was terrified of going to school today and is talking about quiting football because he is so embarresed. would it have meant anyless to lumsden if they only won 40-50 to zero?

In a year that a team is rebuilding how many kids do u think u lose after a loss like that? I thought that was the reason why they put the points for against at a maximum of 20 points so this exact thing would not happen. i even understand the excitment of not giving up a point, i understand that but running up the socre is unacceptable. I had respect for the lumsden coaching staff after last years prov. final but it is all gone now.

I am one of the coaches from Fort Qu'Appelle and I was on the sidelines for the 78-0 loss to Lumsden, and I was on the field for 65-8 win that we had over Kamsack, so I can speak at this from both ends.

In the Lumsden game, we as a coaching staff, did not feel that Lumsden ran up the score on us. Lumsden had pulled most, if not all, of their starters before half time, just as we did against Kamsack last night. After the half, most of our starters were either on the bench, or were no longer playing iron man football. Our team was able to put in Grade 11, 10, and 9s to play, Lumsden has no Grade 9s and 10s to put into the game as their team is made up entirely of Grade 11s and 12s.

Lumsden is an extremely talented and tough team, as people can see by the scores. Otp, I am sorry that your son and yourself feel that they ran up the score. Given Lumsden's talent level, even in their back ups, it would be very hard for them not score points. really the only way they could not is to run something that is completely against what they normally do, or down the ball. Then they run the risk of being called other things, because they geta lead and then do not have to run anything for the rest of the game.

I to have coached other sports, and have been on both ends. There were years that during league play my bench got more time then my starters, because we were that much better then the other teams. There have also been years that I have been on the recieving end. It is tough, I hope that your son continues on with football. There are many more things that Swan has accomplished this year that he can be proud of, rather then focussing and hanging his on this one loss, because is not alone.

Lorne Wilson
Asst. Coach Fort Qu' Appelle

We have also been on both ends, personally I dont care what other teams do because we cannot control it. We have used a 5 touchdown lead as a rule to follow, and everybody has weak players and you can call weak plays to not embarrass teams. just my opinion though.

OTP, I'm sorry that you have those types of feelings after yesterdays game. Let me assure you nothing was trying to be proved and we don't feel proud about it. In fact these are the steps we did do to try and keep the score down.

1. Second team players were rotated in before the end of the first quarter.
2. Starters last time on the field was for one final series in the third quarter.
These two points above allowed my starters to play about 20 min of a max of 48 min.
Realize too that I try to balance playing time and the outcome of the game. Is it fair to a grade twelve player to only give him 10 min a game because we are up. #4 only got 5 carries, my QB only threw 4 times ( and no passes in the 2nd 3rd and 4th) This is not ideal from my perspective either.

3. I quit passing at the end of the first quarter.
4. I quit calling plays before the first half ( Kids called their own playswith my instructions of no passing and to call different plays so all kids can have a chance to carry the ball
5. Defense did not blitz after the second series of the first quarter.

Personally, I do wish the score could have been a lot less. That would allow us to do more things in a game. Realize also that from our perspective, we are trying to run our plays correctly and do our assignments well for our future games too. It isn't fair to expect any team to let up to the point of doing things half effort or even wrong. This can also increase the risk of injuries which no one wants. We need to stay sharp for the next game and the nest game and so on. This is why we still run hard and block and tackle regardless of the score.

I know the loss can be demoralizing. I too have been on the other side as coach and player. I have also experienced devastating losses that were only by 2 or 3 points as well. But after a day or 3 its good to stop thinking about the past start looking into the future. Swan still has a record now of 2-2 and a fair chance to finish 4-2. That is a big success, especially if it is a rebuilding year.

And lastly I don't feel that you have judged me fairly saying that you lost respect for me. I have a great relationship with Rick and all the coaches in 9 man. I helped Rick get tape for his games on his provincial run last year. I also speak up for our 9 man game and I just recently put in hundreds of hours for SasKota so kids from all over the province (and Swan too!) could have a fantastic time. Did you know that the more money I raised, the bigger the budget was for the players, not for our own program. ( spent to the tune of over $13,000). I'd say that solidifies me as a pretty good stand up guy.

Again, I'm sorry that the outcome of yesterdays game was so lop sided. Please realize that it was not malicious or intentional. And it is not unfair when these things happen, it just plain sucks when it does (for both sides)

I will not comment again on past or future scores, and I hope people understand my side also, even if they do not agree with it.

Luke Dunville

Well said Lorne

I have a grade 9 student Who is playing his first year of football. His team lost in Lumsden to a team that was the much better team on that day by a blow out score. With that said My Son was overjoyed to of gotten to play at all in this game. His one play on the field was all that he could talk about for a week following. Of course any player would rather be on a team that thru solid coaching and having large solid talent to pick from that can feild a dominant team. But with that said there is such a thing as losing with class also. I would never call out the coaching staff that was better prepared and were simply better than your sons team on that day. Were the players taunting your players, or just excited for themselves? Was your son approched and belittled by the players or coaches? Or did his team just get beat I'll be it badly by the better team.

All Coaches have to put up with enough stress and headachs thru the season without being called classless for simply doing a great job. I for one say congrats to Lumsden and their players for all their hard work this effort shows on the field. They are on top of the leauge and deserve to be there.

G. Grant

OTP - I find it in bad taste to post the term "classless " to describe the Lumsden Devil coaching staff. Many players read this great site to see the outcome of games and maybe to see thier names in print for a job well done. Leading by example of taking the low road is not the way.

There are two excellent posts along with coach Dunville's, to explain how the attempt at score control was done, and why executing at half speed or letting up is a good recipe for bad habits and injuries. You can't please everyone, because if Lumdsen would have quit on plays and not made an attempt to try we would have been labeled cocky and arrogant. I found the Swan Valley fans supportive and pleasant in the stands. My son found the Swan Valley players to be good sportsman on the field and off, good on you.

As far as Coach Dunville is concerned, I have known him 3 years now, and you will not find a more dedicated and supportive person, not only for Lumsden Football, but for Regina Minor Football, this 9-Man Football league, Senior Bowl and Saskota. He is an ambassador for this sport and "classless" does not have a place in describing him, his coaching staff, or the team.

Mark Ermel
Deer Valley, SK

Having Coached for many years I don't think that it is fun to be on either side of a win like that. I know Coach Dunville and one of the last terms I would use in context with his name or a team that he coached is "classless"!

I think that something that needs to be considered when a program becomes so dominant for extended periods is moving to a level that will challenge both the players and Coaches. It might be time to consider a small school 12 man conference???

Firstly I,m quite appalled and confused about the comment "classless". Maybe before somebody blurts outs comments they should look at the whole picture. Coach Dunville is a FIRST class coach who has done more for the 9 man programand football that what would be consider sane. The volunteer hours that he has/is putting in are off the charts.

I'm not sure what could have been about "the game". Like everyone that was there,I seen the second string players play 2/3 or more of the game and no passing after the first. Unfortunately , one team loses and one team wins. Its football not ballet!!!!!!!!! Lumsden has a awesome football program with some kids having 10 years of football time coming from RMF. Taking a knee, intenionally dropping passes, fumbling just b/c, these would have been more classless. Letting up is a definanate way to get a serious injury. The fans from Swan Valley where top notch, cheering to the end. The sportsmanship from the players was seen on the field to the end as well. Good for you.

Swan Valley made some terrible mistakes in the game, (INT,fumbles,bad kick returns,bad punts). This all aided to the downfall. There is no doubt that they have a rebuilding year to make as they arent the same Provincial run team from last year. Neither team had fun.

So in finishing the term"classless" should be questioned coming from the writer and wonder ?????? Was he at the same game that I was?????

I can honestly say that coach Dunville is a stand up guy and I thing this is refelcted by the many positive comments on his behalf that are on the forum right now. It also sounds like he took steps to limit the scoring (more than other coaches might have). As for the Swan Valley parent, I hope your son sticks with it. He needs to remember that he is part of a team and the team lost. Lumsden is a power house and that is great. They deserve all the success they get because obviously their players and their coaches work extremely hard. Their school is the same size as any other 9 man school in sask. Do you think that they miraculously put something in the water to grow good football players? NO. If other teams are going to whine about Lumsden being so good maybe they should work harder to make their own teams better. Start a minor football program in your town. Get more community people involved. Do anything positive but stop whining! You got beat. Suck it up and get better so you don't get embarrassed anymore. I'm sure coach Dunville would appreciate some competition.

I think we all know who is the one who's really classless.

Its not rocket science. Ken* as posted earlier sums it up perfectly. Lumsden has a Junior footbal program that play in the RMF ( Regina minor football ) program. From grade 8 they are playing football at a very competetive level with an extremely talented coaching staff headed by Kevin Pierce. The players in this league are being pruned from teams that play 3A and 4A Inner city football, in a very competetive league. The Players from this league go on to play for Highschools such as the Leboldus Suns, Winston Knoll Wolverines, Riffel Royels, Sheldon William Spartans and so on.... And from there many senior will go on to play for the elite teams we have here in the south, Regina Thunder and Regina Rams. The coaching staff On these teams Is unsurpassed as is the skill level of which is being played in these Inner city leagues that the smaller towns just dont have access to. So These Junior football players coming through the ranks at LumsdenHighSchool Are at the level coming out of Grade 10 ( The last eligable year for Bantam RMF ) and making there way to the HighSchool team to be rookies are already ready to play at a level much superior to anything the other teams can hope to be at with the facilities, location, funding, and support of a small town.
For anyone that still does not understand.
4-5 years of Competetive football experience as a rookie vs. 4-5 years of recess football as a rookie = 1 team winning all there games by 70-0 +

RMF

Before I start on my rant, I will let you know that I coach both minor and high school football in Meadow Lake SK. If you are taking credit for Lumsden's success then you need to check your ego at the door. You said that Lumsden is so good because of Regina Minor Football. If this is the case why aren't teams like Warman, Martenville and Delisle dominating our league like Lumsden is dominating the south. They have many players that are playing in Saskatoon Minor Football, which I think would be comparable to RMF. I know that minor football programs help to feed skilled players into high school programs. That is exactly why we started a minor football program in Meadow Lake. Other small rural communities have also done this (Unity and Rosetown just to name a couple). But for you to take credit for Lumsden's success is a slap in the face to Luke Dunville and all othe nine man coaches in our province. I get really sick and tired of some 12 man coaches (like yourself) thinking that they invented football coaching. There are many very hard working, dedicated, and very skilled coaches working in both 6 and 9 man rural programs around the province. I know many 12 man coaches that know and respect this fact, so believe me I am not lumping all 12 man coaches together. Maybe you should think about who you are offending before you post comments on this website.

Brent Plant

Just to comment on Luke's position regarding Thursday's game...it was difficult in a game like that to have any control of the outcome that did occur.All the things Luke said he did do, and when players get down on themselves it is difficult to rebound in a particular game.Everything that can go wrong did go wrong.You cannot expect players not to try their best when they are out there and Lumsden's second string players tried to do their jobs and they done it very well.I did feel embarassed as a coach but mainly from the perspective of not preparing our team the way they would have to be prepared to play in a ball game like that.On the other hand as I said to the players at the half that it wasn't that they were not trying, but their skill level, strength, and knowledge of the game is just no where near comparable to Lumsden at this time.
Luke and I do have great respect for each other and despite the game was a low in my years of coaching, I do envy the opportunity Luke has to rebuild his teams year after year to be one of the most skilled in Saskatchewan Rural nine man ball.Players can only learn to what level they have to rise to in order to be at top.

Hey Last time i checked i didnt take credit for anything thankyou. Just stating facts. I am not for or against. The fact is lumsden has a very good junior team in a skilled league that other rural towns dont have access to. But thanks for the rant, it was an interesting read to kill some time at work.

And do not speak to me like i have come on to the 9 man football website to offend people. If you look at this discussion board you will actually see that your comment was one of the two that were directly intended to offend anyone. Yes you have JUST established a minor football programm in Meadow, but RMF has been around for years and years and has produced many players that now, did, or will play in the CFL. But acting like the hero you are, Meadow lakes Minor programm should be up and running strong in no time and then Meadowlake will have the access to talented, strong and game ready rookies like Lumsden does.

Brent

I would check your ego. RMF was just stating that there is an advantage to having the extra coaches and being able to offer your rookies an opportunity to play while still fielding an excellent team of grade 11 and 12. Coach Dunville is a great coach and rep. for nineman football. He is also very lucky to be able to have all of his players playing competitive football.
Secondly. Delisle is 4-0, has allowed to the least points and has scored double the points of the next closest team. Martensville is 3-1(with the only loss coming to Delisle) so it appears that two of the teams you say "are nt running away with the league" appear to be a lot more dominant than your team.

Looks like I got some good discussion going which was my intent. By the way, "football" if you want to insult my program at least put your real name on your posts. I at least had the decency to "put my name on it".

Just because Lumsden has been kicking a@# doesn't mean that they are purposefully beating down the team. Like Luke said they did everything to try and even things out but in the end it turned out to not be enough. What else could he possibly have done. PLUS i played on the Lumsden devils high school team when WE got our butts kicked, just about every game and we didn't make it to the finals and WE were embarrassed but we weren't on the computer whining because we lost some games, we tried to get better. Things happen. Just because we MIGHT win two years in a row doesn't mean anything. If you look on the trophy there are teams that won it 4 or 5 times in a row?! We win one and every one gets all riled up because we have too good of team? Get better. WHO knows maybe next year swan valley will beat us 45 - 0 or Fort Quapplle. I bet no one will be posting comments on a forum then.

Kelsey :
Be carful lumping all the post together big fella. You seem to lump swan valley and Fort Qu Appelle in the same bunch and I feel the need to confirm the posts from the Fort were nothing but support for Luke and his Program. Even after our loss to the Devils.

Garry

enough said....just need to deal with it.

I grouped them together but they obviously have different meanings. The fort is all for Dunvilles program and i did not write what i wrote to try and say they were bashing him. I simply had scores and winning games in mind.

Kelsey Peterson? So after winning provincials last year, and losing in one of the best/closest games in decades in the 2008 semi-final. Which year was it exactly that you were getting your butt kicked kelsey? because i know you only get 2 years highschool down there in Lumsden.

True I did only get two years. But i wasnt born the day i went to the sr. devils. and i did play when i was two years too young. so thanks for the consideration.

Having coached against Luke for years and having many back and forth battles when I was coaching in the Fort, I can honestly say that there are few coaches I know of who put so much time and effort into their program.

I feel it necessary to echo the comments here that support Mr. Dunville and the Lumsden football program. Luke is a great coach, a champion for 9 - man football and an awesome guy. Circumstances are that he has an extremely strong program and some scores are lopsided. However, if he is not throwing a ball after the first quarter and playing his bench in the first quarter, it is apparent he took the necessary steps to keep the score down. However football is not like basketball where you can instruct players to use the whole shot clock, not run pressure defense or a fast break. You simply cannot tell a football player to "let them tackle you" or "don't do your assignment". That can lead to injury which, as Luke pointed out, nobody wants.

In situations where we got our butt kicked, I turned that into a positive by stating "that's where we aspire to be." Football, like any sport, encompasses work in the weight room and at clinics and camps as well as on the field or in the gym. The fact that Luke and the Devils program finds and takes advantage of the opportunities to get better should not be overlooked.

In closing, I have both won and lost close and not so close games against Lumsden. I can say without exception that Luke and the Devils' program, though bitter rivals of ours, were well respected by us and showed class throughout the 10 years I did battle with them.

Why is Lumsden's team entirely 11s and 12s. Where are the 9s and 10s?

We have a junior team that plays in the RMF league.